Final Fantasy 16's Demo Has Been a Huge Hit With PS5 Players

Nope. Not gonna do the demo. Gonna hold out for the full package. 😬

“Has it made the wait all the more difficult?”

TotK, SF6, and Diablo IV all releasing in the weeks prior is what has made the last stretch of this wait especially difficult.

Lets hope it sells and that they realise that quality sells.

@Gitface Same here.

@Gitface It’s just the first few hours of the game, so it won’t be a spoiler in that sense. It’s just playing the prologue with progress saved. Otherwise, I would have waited too.

Absolutely incredible demo! I already preordered it but man what and exclamation point this is. I'm really enjoying others reactions. I dont really wan t to play anything else till June 22.

The demo is what got me to preorder. I usually wait for reviews to preorder any game, (even first party games!) but I enjoyed the demo a lot. Only two negatives is the frame rate drops in the frame rate mode (hopefully it’s fixed when it comes out since it doesn’t seem like they’ll have a day one patch) and the fact that they hurt/murder animals way too much for my liking.

@Jaz007 its about 2hrs less if you skip cut scenes ,ill be starting a fresh game

@CrispyMango92 Yeah the demo is Ver. 1.01 and apparently the State of Play Demo from 2 months ago was already Ver. 1.03 so I expect the full release will have improved performance.

@CrispyMango92 it looks like medieval England, and if they didn't eat it they sent it to war.

@AdamNovice I thought the same but played it anyway. Glad that I did because now I've got the prologue out of the way.

I preorderd it just.

The demo blew me away, and it was just the start of the game. If it really plans to just keep going up from here, then we're in for something really special.

Fantastic demo,the battle system is brilliant in the eikon challenge,this is what a final fantasy game should be like ,regardless of your stance on turn based or action based, epic monster battles ,hoping it brings back the excitement of ff7 when you find a new materia summon and cant wait to see the flashy animations,I miss summons,90 min knights of the round attack,yes please 😂

I’ve never been a FF fan, but I really liked the FF16 demo and plan on playing it within a couple months.

I finished the 2nd half of the demo earlier today and I loved it. Probably the best demo I've ever played so I'm really looking forward to the full game on the 22nd.

Not sure why but the demo didn’t do much for me. But glad to see others enjoyed it.

I tried to play the demo to see if there's really an RPG in there or not....but instead got a sequel to Spirits Within but with parts where you walk too. I'll get there eventually whenever I actually have time to watch a movie before I play 5 minutes of gameplay lol.

@NEStalgia we get it you don’t like FF16. But we don’t need to know it in every article. Just maybe ignore the articles?

Plenty of other good games out there.

@NEStalgia You never tried it. You hated this game since day one. Even if it was great your ego wouldn’t allow you to admit it.

I thought it was excellent and really can't wait for the release. Becsuse save data carries over what do you think will happen with any trophies that would have popped during the prologue, if any?

It was a taste of game of the generation of course I was gonna love it. But good lord what a fantastic demo it was. I've never played a prologue so engrossing like this. I wasn't even aware you could already unlock more skills to flesh out the combat in the beginning and I was still having fun parrying and dodging. Soken has basically cemented himself as a legendary composer, I've been playing the Stillwind music on repeat since I first heard it. There was just so much going on I loved it to death

Ive been seeing a few complaints about the fps and I'm honestly glad my vision apparently still can't tell the difference unless it's something truly bad bad. Cause I played the whole thing and thought it ran beautifully. Not once did I notice a stutter but apparently there was lmao. My only wish is that they do include a motion blur toggle but apparently there was an option for that in the pax demo so I'm hopeful. Please just let me play this masterpiece fully already SE

I stopped into a GameStop yesterday because I had a $5 promo I could use for anything in the store. Since I'm all digital, I bought a wallet card. It took the person at the counter a few minutes to notice me because he was enamored with watching a playthrough of the demo on his phone.

An absolutely STONKING opener, like, holy cow it had everything: world-building, political intrigue, monsters and demons, war, familial tragedy, espionage, a coup d'etat, murder, emotion. All packed into the first couple hours; and it ends on a proper cliff hanger like, GIMME THE GAME NOW.

Felt like a pilot episode of a really good show.

EDIT: Also the music...... THE MUSIC.

I've just been replaying the demo over and over because I want to get familiar with the combos. This is probably going to be my favorite FF game!

@NEStalgia FF16 lives in your head rent free.

To those 4% who don’t plan on playing, PLAY THE DEMO

I'm still planning on buying and playing the game and always have, but if I only had the demo to go off of, it probably wouldn't be enough to sell me.

I felt like the demo was 90% cutscenes.. Which, granted, I thought they were good, but the demo didn't really showcase the game much IMO. A lot of the demo felt like a 5 minute cutscene, followed by less than a minute of walking from one door to another, followed by another 5 minute cutscene.

@Nepp67 the prologue or the Eikonic Challenge?

@gonzilla the Eikonic Challenge is where you’ll get more gameplay

@KaijuKaiser No, I've never said I hated the game, and I've explicitly said that every single time you attack me for what I have said, which is that it's always looked like a new IP or spinoff, not an FF game because it's never even appeared to be an RPG at all. I've been clear every time, and clarified for you every time you attack, that the game looks decent as exactly that, a new action game IP from Square or FF action adventure spinoff, and also clarified that that was based on what we were shown and that they could have simply shown it badly.

My hope was that the demo would make it clear, and maybe it does, but the ungodly length of the cutscenes prevented me from getting far enough to find out yet. So at this point it's still a question mark to me.

Even if it remains just an action game spinoff/new IP that still doesn't mean that I hate the game itself and would never buy/play it, it just means I'm insulted they tried to pawn it off as FF and will continue waiting for a real FF and would buy this someday when it's cheap enough. Don't believe me? I bought Forspken AND the DLC/Deluxe upgrade in the Days of Play sale despite genuinely hating the demo but still being curious about the whole world, the price was good enough for the level of curiosity.

I played it loved it said it was glorious the 22nd is looking good but I might be moving house that week so 8m probably gonna have to wait a few days before playing damn u adult responsibilities 😅🤣😆😆😆

@tallythwack yeah I know. Them saying Game of Thrones was an inspiration pretty much prepared me for what’s to come. Won’t stop me from playing the game but I’ll shed an invisible tear every time a chocobo gets killed. 😢

@3Above ah, thanks for that info! The frame drops were making me contemplate waiting a week or two to see if they patched it but if that’s the case, it should be good.

@NEStalgia I'm curious why you find the cutscenes too long? I mean I know there are others on here that share the same sentiment, but I understand that with a lot of RPGs they do get off to a slower start than most other games. I guess it's just setting everything up. I'm sure once you set out into the world it'll be more gameplay focused; especially when places open up and sidequests/hunts become available.

Also despite the length of the cutscenes I do think it is quite engrossing, and the little lore and details you can bring up during them is genius. Maybe the story hasn't grabbed you yet.

I wouldn't write it off just yet!

I'm going in blind. Can't wait for next week as this is my most anticipated game of the year. Glad to see the demo's a huge hit with the majority of those that have played it!

I really wanted to hold off on this until the release day but damn, I couldn't resist. The demo is so good and while we're few days away from the actual release day, I just can't wait any longer lol.

I spent most of my time fiddling with the HDR and the graphics mode vs performance mode before deciding not to continue playing because in just going to forget everything waiting for the full release.

Demo was chefs kiss, really set the tone for what the game is about and got me excited on the crazy story that could unfold. Music gave me Xenoblade 3 vibes for some reason.

It's fantastic. I finished the second part last night. That one reviewer who called it mindless button mashing must have been playing "story-focused."

I’ve found it hard to get too excited for XVI as the combat was really putting me off. Tried the Demo and it has put to bed any doubts I had, really enjoyed the combat it’s super fun. Finally super excited for it now, honestly cant wait!

I wasn't feeling the game too much pre demo but after trying it I'm all in! The only reason I may not pick it up at launch is Zelda, which I'm only 20 hours into so far.

@JB_Whiting Yeah, I'm assuming it has to get to gameplay eventually! And I kind of expect a Square Enix demo to always pick an awkward slice of game, because they usually do. I definitely haven't written it off yet. If the whole game gets so cutscene heavy it'll definitely keep my enthusiasm down, though.

I'm just not a fan of games as movies. Like at all. I like games as games, I don't mind games as books. Games as movies bores me to tears. I'm holding a controller to DO something, and I don't really enjoy passively doing nothing for long periods of time. My general rule on a console is if the screen dims from inactivity putting it to screen saver mode, the cutscene is definitely too long!

True, RPGs, especially JRPGs tend to have slow starts and a lot of story, but ideally they balance and pace it well. Yakuza/LaD usually stays juuust on the right side of that, with movies that are sometimes a bit too long, but usually well paced enough with more play time than watching time just as an example. This demo at least just, to me, strays on the wrong side of that where I sat down to see what the play loop is like and instead spent the entire session just watching movies, interrupted only by walking a few steps until the next one and didn't even get to see gameplay.

As a baseline it's the same with MGS4 for me. I don't even remember playing a game I just remember sitting there watching movies and occasionally slithering in prone. Definitely not a favorite game for me, even if the movies were memorable. Although I will say XII went egregious on the story-to-gameplay ratio early on as well, and then basically just went full sandbox after that.

Again…THIS. GAME. CLAPS!!! Pre ordered it after playing it. Mission accomplished, Square Enix.

@NEStalgia Ah yeah I get you. MGS was probably the biggest culprit for that; that definitely went waaay too far in that direction. I understand about pure gameplay; Diablo IV is a good example, the story is kind of there but it's so focussed on the action that you just sort of get on with it; it trims the fat and always gives you full control, and for that I can't put it down.

I suppose it feels different to the old FFs where you read the dialogue at your own pace, and still had a sense of control of the story's pacing; reading gives the player a little more input than just passively watching.

I'm confident that when it opens up the combat will really show its colours, and give players full control and individuality on how they approach battles. But yeah I guess we'll see, hopefully it'll turn out to be a classic.

I dont get it.

The production values and narrative have been heavily invested into for sure and are decent. Yet that demo is 80% watching generic cut scenes, amidst walking a few steps. The combat is just as concerning as it has shown in every preview. The AI is basically nonexistent. I dont understand why they decided to settle for what this is. I am fine with them going action combat if it has depth, which i dont think it really does, but thats not the really big issue here. Its that combat coupled with the fact that the enemy AI is just terrible, and thus there is literally no difficulty whatsoever. To the extent that it really lays bare just how repetitive the combat is when you pair it with giant health bars for enemies that for the most part just stand there waiting for you to grind down that health bar. I tested it several times, in the few combat scenarios present in the demo. I had to TRY to get the enemies to attack me, and even that was a slog, sometimes they dont even turn to face you for way too long. They essentially simplified the combat, and the AI to the point that unless something changes as you progress, this combat is going to grow very sterile and mundane over time. The past previews that outlets tried far later in the game, suggest it doesn't get better as the game progresses and was noted by some as really the one main concern they had.

It only exacerbates the feeling that you are just coasting to the next cut scene. Another playable b movie in a sense. It feels like they tried to emulate the stereotypical and aging Sony first party studio game design, but completely missed the fact that those playable movies really dialed in the combat aspects. It is actually quite a shame, because with so much effort into crafting such a high production value narrative, its just lame they chose to pair it with such underwhelming combat that really has little going for it aside from the flashy visual effects along with on rails and qte sequences, especially when the environmental design is pretty linear funneling you to the next empty battle space or cut scene. I must also admit though, this heavily consolidated suite of playable movies that sony has narrowed to, aside from the 80% live service garbage future, is just growing stale as a whole. I'd trade most of them for a diverse suite lower cost lower dev time titles any day.

I'm kind of stunned at just how simple the combat is every way. without even the option to try and adjust settings to make it more challenging/engaging (this would have made a huge difference). oh, and Square,...Maybe get working on a patch to address the terrible performance mode and motion blur please. This could have been an amazing FF spinoff, but for me personally that combat design just tanks the main change this was attempting to implement.

Incredible. I haven't been this stoked for a FF game since FF10. and that was many moons ago. I was always going to get this, but it just made me pre-order. If you haven't played it (even if you dislike FF) I would definitely recommend you do. We have a big release on our hands here.

"Not playing it, waiting for the full game" lasted about a day before breaking down 😅

Loved it. I already had a pre-order - cant wait.

It was a little too cinematic for me. A lot of the gameplay felt kind of fake. The segment where you're shooting fireballs as the bird just dragged on and on with zero stakes because the sequence is going to last the same if I play well or not. The boss fights felt like I was just playing until the game had shown me the special animations it wanted me to see. You and your team are just wailing on the boss and the health is just barely moving. It felt more like I was just expected to stagger a set number of times.

Modern final fantasy is full of this kind of "just watch" stuff. This may just be because it's the demo and you're on rails with a set power level, though. I'll probably still get the game on release. The combat against the lesser enemies was good.

@JB_Whiting Yep. And I may find out by the end of the demo....I just have to get there...

It helps that I'm a fast reader, so when a game, say Persona, has both text boxes and VAs over them, I'm usually done reading the text long before the VA is done reading it and get trigger happy and advance, regretting sometimes cutting off the dialogue, But at other times linger over line piece of impactful text longer than necessary. And then all the text that exists without VA I don't actually realize isn't in VA because I'm reading it but hearing it fully voice acted in their voices in my head. Same for Yakuza in Japanese.... I've found myself recommending it several times and telling people it's fully VA'd and people are like "how do I change to English?"....idk...I heard the whole thing in Kuroda's voice in English, don't you?

The big thing for me with this game is it's obvious it's not really FF so far (maybe the end of the demo will change my mind) so I have to do what I didn't do with 13 until years later not try to think of it as FF. I hated 13 when it launched, but replaying it many years later, thought the combat was some of the best in the series, because you had a fixed difficulty, everyone was basically the same level due to the linearity.

@danzoEX @Gonzilla I feel like they should have chosen a different name for the eikonic Challenge. I went into it expecting an arena fight with enemy waves based on the name and was so pleasantly surprised to get a taste of story!

I am part of the 11% that voted they hadn't played it yet. I have now played it, so I wish to change my answer to "It's Fantastic"

Who knew Garuda was such a freak "wink wink"

@KundaliniRising333 Its a demo my dude. There are hunts and bosses that will be challenging later. No FF game was difficult early on. FF7 widely considered the best can be beaten easily without any materia. Weapons and limit breaks are strong enough to blast through the game. With your logic I just can’t see how you’ve enjoyed any game in this franchise.

I’m gonna get some crap for saying this but if this game is successful then I kind of hope turn based is over with. You just don’t get that sense of urgency and dramatic flair with that style of gameplay, not to mention that these awesome Soken pieces just fit so much better when there’s action happening. I wouldn’t mind certain remakes or spin-offs staying turn based but for the numbered franchise this seems like the game that will set the bar for all future releases and I couldn’t be more happy about that. Good franchises evolve and expand the fanbase. This could be FF BotW moment

@KaijuKaiser Not at all. You are cherry picking my comments to support your love for the series and your already made up mind on the title.

In past entries, even early on, the enemies actually attacked you. You started weak as well so those hits hurt. Here it is not that. I realize they have hunts and all of that, as they have shown so much. Yet knowing whatI know now from playing it, and honestly it has been apparent since the first preview, it wont matter. The hunt footage was a near ten minute battle that amounted to essentially a war of attrition, of which the main enemy was your patience or potentially bladder, while you repeatedly button mash and wait for skill cooldowns to Lauch those over and over and over again as you widdle down the gigantic health bars. Even if they had just made the encounters have the option to be more challenging, it would at least foster more engagement. Yet as it stands, its just so shallow and I worry about its longevity.

Yet if you really connect with it, that's great. I'm happy for ya!

@KaijuKaiser I think turnbased was well and truly gone years ago, they have just been trying to find a formula that actually works and fans enjoy. Most of the ideas they have implemented over the years have not worked very well at all, some fared better than others, but it seems like this was a logical transition! I think fans love turnbased so much 1. Nostalgia 2. As it's more tactical. But we original fans grow older, new audiences are needed and turnbased is not popular anymore. FF9 is rumoured to be turnbased, but yeah any new entry is definitely going in this direction.

@KundaliniRising333 I agree it was kind of easier than I expected but I can’t imagine it will stay that way and if it does I will fault them for not introducing the higher difficulty level from the very beginning.

@EquiinoxGII I never found any of the old games tactical. They were always unbalanced. Once you found that one powerful spell or summon it was over. Still loved them though and they did a great job with 7 remake in increasing the difficulty from the original

@KundaliniRising333 Eh. It looks like a game from Kojima w/o Kojima, but FF instead. (No Kojima... Nojima maybe? Haha)

Its still style over substance.

Yawn, we need a Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest remake..

@KaijuKaiser YES! thats what i was thinking, it could be a totally different story for me had they included a higher difficulty option straight out of the box during first playthrough.

@KaijuKaiser yeah I never seemed to think that, different now but when I was 8 it was a different story. Haha, see I found 7 remake far too easy (even on the harder difficulty), I suppose it's opinions. Either way, the FF7 remake combat was a good progression I found and this takes it one step further. As always I'm sure the next FF games will have different systems.

I was ready to roll my eyes at dialogue and spam buttons in combat but I actually really enjoyed it. Had lots of throat slitting which is hardcore for an FF game.

@3Above @danzoEX Yeah, based on the description they gave in the demo of what the Eikonic Challenge was, I chose not to play it. It explained it has powers and items you get much later in the game, which personally, I wanted the experience of finding out about the powers and what they were, obtaining them, and trying them out for the first time to be left completely unspoiled as part of the story/game. So, based on what was described in the demo, I intentionally chose not to play it.

Like I said I'm still planning on buying it because I'm a fan and already have an idea of what to expect, but if I wasn't or didn't, based on the demo alone (just the main demo, not the Eikonic Challenge), I would have been bored out of my wits and unimpressed with the combat, and it would not have sold me. Also, I felt like the demo ended too early, right when it was getting interesting after slogging through a ton of cutscenes with barely any gameplay.

Going to play the demo a day before it launches or maybe on the day it arrives while I install the game. Don't want to start now only to wish I was still playing the rest of it

Good looking game, interesting plot, good dialogue. The gameplay is really solid and combat is satisfying.

The only downsides I would say are the performance being a bit iffy and feeling a bit too linear, to the point of forcefully railroading.

After playing the demo I feel that worst case scenario it's a really solid game with flaws and best case GotY.

Cancelled my pre-order due to framerate issues.

@danzoEX Challenge

@MUG3NHC Keep in mind that this is literally an old build and the new version is 1.03 which has improved performance as shown from the new gameplay in the pre launch livestream.

Loved the demo didn't love the framerate. This has to be sorted by launch right?

@gonzilla Yeah there is ALOT the main demo doesn't outright tell you and I only realized from playing around and watching others play it. Yeah I totally understand going in fresh with the eikonic powers. just 1 more week to go!

Gotta say it was the first Final Fantasy that I had very little hype for instead I was more excited for Final Fantasy Rebirth but after playing the demo I immediately put down my preorder!

@Nepp67
Supposedly.
But after Jedi Survivor fiasco, when reviews claimed that everything is hunky dory, I prefer to be cautious this time round.

Game is great..I can't wait..gimme the game now

@MUG3NHC That's absolutely fair, although I'm kinda trusting Yoshi P since he's very confident about it not needing a day 1 patch.

I have never played a FF game before but the demo was just incredible so preordered and can't wait.
The only thing i don't understand is the name 'Clive' lol.
For you FF veterans, do the other entries in the franchise have the same kind of names?

Clive is an uncommon name but not unheard of. Most famous Clive I know of is director/author Clive Barker.

@Caveman49 Most FF names are oddly weather related like Cloud, Squall, Lightning, Snow and other odd names like Hope, Quistis, Zell, Yuffie, Locke, Kain, Bartz etc however we do get the odd few normal names like Cid who is a recurring character or Clare and now Clive so there is a lot of variation.

@Caveman49 well you have Guy, Leon and Maria from FF2 if you count those.

Anyways, is it that bad of a name? I know it sounded so generic but I don't find it that bad? In fact, I got used to it.

@KaijuKaiser I wish more older fans understood this and could be more open to the evolution of the Final Fantasy series. I can't think of a single long running series like FF that has stayed the same. Resident Evil didn't keep tank controls and fixed cameras forever and Assassin's Creed is completely different to how it used to be.

A game with 16 main installments and many spin offs isn't going to stay turn based forever. Dragon Quest is the only one I can think of but it honestly suffers from it's refusal to do something new and different imo.

@NEStalgia I understand where you’re coming from. However, I do have one question about a sentiment you’ve shared a few times.

You’ve asserted that this “is not an FF game,” but it’s important to clarify it simply doesn’t feel like FF to you. As players, we can decide how we feel about a game, but the creators have complete agency to decide what is or isn’t ”Final Fantasy.” The number of times you’ve expressed it as fact is likely a contributor to why some find it difficult to accept your position as good faith.

Whether you end up enjoying it or not, this IS Final Fantasy XVI. Furthermore, if you struggled similarly with FF XIII because it didn’t feel like FF, but you ended up enjoying it years later by not thinking of it as FF, perhaps there’s an opportunity to reflect on why labels and titles are affecting your experience of games so deeply when ignoring them may allow you to enjoy or appreciate more freely.

Is FF a monolith? I don’t reckon the franchise has ever aimed to be one.

@Cloud39472 thank you for that, much appreciated

@Ashina thank you for the info, and no, i don't think it is a 'bad' name but given the world and the lore and the fantasy, using an old not very popular English name just didn't seem right to me. Sort of took me out of the world if that makes sense every time i heard it.

Not enough to not pre order though!!

I actually really enjoyed it, but just down to the story and world building. I really cared for the characters by the end, and I can't wait to see where the story goes. It's a shame it's just an action game with a very basic skill tree, and not an RPG. It's also a shame the whole world seems to be one long corridor, or a series of disconnected battle arenas. It's weird when something like Assassin's Creed is more of an RPG than FF. That said, a pillar of FF has always been the story and characters and XVI does them very well.

I just hope that amidst the seriousness of war and politics, there's some good old fashioned FF humour in there too. I want Clive to meet Godbert Manderville.

@ApostateMage Can't wait for Clive to meet Gilgamesh

@Caveman49 lmao, for me I guess it's "Jill" that kinda feel a bit off in this game world. I dunno, the name sounds modern that it just doesn't fit but that's just me and probably because of Jill Valentine. Also, forgot to mention "Jack" Garland

@MUG3NHC The demo is a confirmed Old build of the game. Ver. 101.
The State of play demo from back in April already was Ver . 103
https://twitter.com/ChillBandit/status/1669044939756322816?t=dVoP6da3goVh_g-FsVjvig&s=19

I thought the first trailer looked cool and figured I would pick it up somewhere down the line. I pre-ordered it from the demo right after finishing it.

Unfortunately, I was pretty let down by the demo. It runs really badly. In performance mode, the frame rate is all over the place. I've heard that the demo is an outdated build, so hopefully the final version will run better.

I'm waiting to play the demo until the day before release. That way I don't have to wait so long to continue the game

@fromjtov If something shifts in it's actual genre from a genre that has represented 30 + years of a series to a completely other genre and shifts in tone and presentation to a completely different one, it's very hard to jump to "this is part of the same series because the brand name on the box says it is." The whole point of a series is as an identifier of what the product's foundation is. Whether a story, theme, or genre, and from what they have showed previously, this looked to represent none of that. Which is exactly why spinoffs exist, take Persona spinning off from SMT for example. Or the many, many FF spinoffs that recognized that to use the FF themes in new genres. I don't see this any different from the FF spinoffs beyond branding deciding it's not a spinoff.

That's never been meant as a criticism of that the game is as much as a criticism of what it is compared to what the name insinuates it's supposed to be if it isn't. I.E. "this game looks bad" is a different statement form "this game isn't part of the FF series" (I'm not saying you're insinuating that but some do.)

I've always used the example of GoW since that seems to be the comparison often used for this game. If the next GoW game is a first person shooter set in a colorful anime environment and a comedy tone, I don't think fans would say "yep, this is god of war" just because the box says GoW6. A series has a certain standard of what type of game it is borne by the name. If it's not that type of game, it's a new series. Doesn't mean it's a bad one. Doesn't mean it can't become bigger than the original (again, Persona vs SMT), just means it bears its own brand or subbrand to identify what it is.

That having been said, that assumes it plays as an action adventure instead of an ARPG. It has appeared that way in presentations, user comments post-demo have not really clarified that detail still with mixed results, and due to the cutscene overload I haven't been able to see for myself yet, so it's surely not a definitive opinion until I have. It's what it has appeared to be from the media releases available to date at least prior to the demo.

@Ashina The Gilgamesh character was done so well in FFV. Every encounter with him is rather humorous, and I got to enjoy seeing him so much that the last encounter with him actually made me get a little emotional.
FFV isn't my favorite in the series by any means, but it definitely has its shining moments.

I think cut scene length is fine (within reason) if it adds to the experience. If it’s just exposition and repetition (I’m looking at you Trails of Cold Steel), nope. I didn’t hate the cutscenes in the demo. From memory aren’t there huge cutscenes in every FF. Apparently a 23 minute cutscene in Crisis Core, and the Knight of the Round summon! This made me 100% more interested in FF16, I definitely didn’t want that hopping DMC movement where you feel like you’ve got no range, and this didn’t feel like that. I’m intrigued, if not totally hyped (I’ve been hurt before😂)

@NEStalgia OK so I've gotta ask, what is Final Fantasy to you? I've personally enjoyed every main installment and consider them all to be "Final Fantasy" 1,3 and 5 being my least favourite and 7,15 and 9 being my most favourite.

Final Fantasy has been Sci-fi fantasy like 7,8,13,15.
It's been more traditional like 1,2,3,5,9 etc
We've had ivalice games like 12 and Tactics.
It's been turn based like 1-10 and also action based like 15 and 7R or MMOesque like 12 or straight MMO's like 11 and 14.

Final Fantasy has been all these things so why can't it also be a dark fantasy, Action rpg? We've heard the game opens up so I'm still willing to stand by it being an rpg until I see otherwise.

Preordered. I don’t think he made it. 🫤

Played the demo, was it good…. Just shut up and take my money!

@Cloud39472 he just doesn’t like the game.

Plenty of other turn based games he can enjoy however.

@NEStalgia You make a lot of great points that I follow fully. With that said, there are no rules against change, reinvention, or exploration. Many beloved series have reinvented themselves over the years, with those who haven’t often reaching a plateau and losing steam as a result.

When FF debuted as a series, gaming standards and technology were in a completely different place. The constraints on mechanics and storytelling were significantly different. The crux of your point is a harsh truth of life: change is challenging for all involved, especially when something was a certain way for so long.

I’d argue that, were Square Enix less inclined to embrace growth and experimentation over the years, FF may not have maintained the longevity the franchise has enjoyed for decades. They have decided this is the path forward for the core series at this time, and they did not wish to brand or present FFXVI as a spinoff.

With all the franchise has put out over the years, FF is not a genre. There’s a reason “souls-like” is a term but “Final Fantasy-like” is not. They’ve chosen not to be defined or constrained by a single genre, and that choice will naturally appeal to some and not to others. That’s perfectly ok. We don’t have to play every AAA game that releases to massive hype, and I’ve learned giving in to that temptation leads to massive backlogs of games we probably should have just left others to enjoy.

While it’s ideal for new installments to appeal to long-term fans of the franchise, there’s a reason each new mainline chapter (i.e. a full number increase) focuses on different characters and a new story. I would imagine mainline FF is best approached and experienced as a series of interwoven themes vs continuity of a single core genre.

After all… the phoenix is a theme in FFXVI, sharing a bit of thematic through line with another upcoming title: Rebirth.

I’m not seeking for you to change your mind whatsoever. Rather, I appreciate the discourse. Regardless of which genre FFXVI does or doesn’t end up slotting into, I have a feeling its merits will come down to how well its overall plot, character arcs, and gameplay mechanics work together to create a positive experience for the greatest number of players, new and old.

I could never get into ff games, but after playing this demo wow. Great combat, story, and soundtrack. Definitely buying

@fromjtov That's a reasonable analysis, though I'd pose another question and flip that around a little. The purpose of a brand is to identify a product to the customer, and the value of a long lived brand is the consumer knows what type of product to expect from that brand.

If final fantasy is not a genre, not a gameplay approach, not a particular world, theme, storyline, not a consistent art style, then it begs the question of "what is the brand?". What is it's value beyond marketing affinity and nostalgia? If it represents nothing identifiable, consistent, or informs the consumer what it is, why does the brand exist? What value does this game gain by being named ff16 rather than "Shadows of the Eternal Sword" or some new brand that captures the the essence of the product? With the standard that the brand represents nothing and therefore it's used to represent anything trendy at the particular moment in time, the only real cache the brand name holds is precisely that its appealing to those that valued what the brand had always been in the past. Which then leads to this divide. Clearly the brand isn't necessary for new audiences and even works as a detriment. We've seen many comments from people that specifically don't like the series but are interested in this because it isn't that. So why preserve the brand name for the sake of the name alone? Why use a brand that represents something else rather than using a new brand. Is there a difference between changing applying a brand to something that brand has never represented vs ending a brand and creating a new one beyond exploiting whatever marketing value it holds with a market that is too limited to continue servicing with the previous brand identity?

Yet ff hasn't actually lost it's traditional brand appeal to a serviceable market. The reaction to 7 rebirth, pixel remaster, the 7 mobile game (in Asia) make that clear. So that makes the choice that much more bewildering. Nor has it's traditional genre faded into obscurity, RPGs both action and turn based are thriving. Diablo 4 is leading the charts at this moment! Starfield is Microsoft's cornerstone. Atlus and RGG turn based rpgs tagged behind it. Only square seems to think the genre is unworthy of their brand. Which seems behind the times from a period there it looked like RPGs were in decline which turned out to be a false alarm.

Now one clarification is that all is based on the preception that it plays as an action adventure rather than an RPG. Which may not turn out to be the case, the demo has not yet made that clear one way or the other to me, so it may not be my final opinion of it. Even reports by other players of the demo haven't made that any more clear so far, and I'm thinking the demo may still be a poor demonstration of the actual game

Loved the game, however the performance caused me to cancel my preorder and patiently wait for a pc port. Performance mode image quality was so fuzzy and I couldn't gel with the 30fps on quality, despite desperately trying. It seems like such a good game I want to wait to experience it at its fullest. A 40fps mode would definitely make me reconsider..

@Sequel The demo is two versions behind the retail one next week so not sure if that will fix it. I didn’t have any issues with it personally but some people get more affected by those things I suppose

Congratulations SquareEnix you successfully converted the Final Fantasy franchise to a mainstream action game.

All the comments like "I never liked Final Fantasy before but I really liked this demo" prove it.

I played the demo as well, and yeah it seems like a damn good Final Fantasy "spin-off" game. It got arrangements of classic Final Fantasy tunes including the prelude theme, it got Moogles and Chocobos and it got summons. But it doesn't have the gameplay.

I never really loved the action RPG direction of Final Fantasy XV and VII Remake, but this game is even less RPG and more action from what I can tell.

It's not that I don't like action games, but there's plenty of action games out there. But there's not that many great turn based jRPG franchises anymore, I sure hope they won't mess up the Dragon Quest franchise as well.

@NEStalgia To me, Final Fantasy is and will forever be turn based jRPG with seriously good stories and interesting worlds to explore, accompanied by great music and art direction.

Sure you can expect chocobos, moogles and other Final Fantasy creatures to appear but ultimately it's was always the turn based combat and story telling that did it for me.

Square used to experiment a bit within the borders of the genre, but it always felt familiar starting a new Final Fantasy game.

Things started going south with Final Fantasy XIII.

And Final Fantasy XV was originally supposed to be a spin-off game called Final Fantasy Versus XIII. Renaming it XV and taking the entire franchise in that direction will make them money as they will appeal more to mainstream gamers, but they are abandoning their loyal fanbase. It's a shame.

Final Fantasy is dead for me, Final Fantasy XVI is nothing more than a Final Fantasy spin-off in my eyes.

Maybe one day SquareEnix will cast a phoenix down on the franchise and do a FFIX again. "A game that returns to the roots"

@DaniPooo Im part of that loyal fan base and I’m hyped for this game. Don’t lump me in with those people. Not everyone in the fandom is so resistant to change. I’m glad 16 is appealing to a wider audience while not forgetting its roots. 16 has everything you just mentioned except for turn based combat

@KaijuKaiser It's weird that Final Fantasy 11 and 14 are named as if they were Main line titles though. To me it would make more sense if they were named Final Fantasy Online or World of Final Fantasy, but they decided to name another spin-off that...

All Final Fantasy mainline games up until Final Fantasy 10 has been turn based jRPG's. Their highest rated games belongs to this group. And generally most fan agrees that they have been going downhill since 10. (Even if many still praise Final Fantasy XII)

@KaijuKaiser What roots is it that it didn't forget? The Chocobos and Moogles? Because they sure forgot all the gameplay that made Final Fantasy great.

@DaniPooo Crystals, summons , dragoons, world building, iconic enemies, epic music, Cid, etc. gameplay has changed with each game but the others have remained a staple.

@KaijuKaiser So with your logic it would be completely fine to make final fantasy mainline any genre as long as it has "Crystals, summons , dragoons, world building, iconic enemies, epic music, Cid, etc"

perhaps a final fantasy first person western RPG like the elder scroll? Or even better a real time strategy? Or a Doom like shooter with Firaga flamethrowers and blizzaga machine guns?

Hey I am not saying they can't do stuff like that but better to do that as spine-off games, like they used to with Final Fantasy tactics, Final Fantasy VII - crisis core, final fantasy VII - Dirge of Cerberus, Final Fantasy - Crystal Chronicles just to name a few

@DaniPooo Most of what separates the mainline series from spin-offs is budget. If enough love, care, and respect are put into the numbered games then no I don’t mind drastic changes in gameplay. I personally don’t care for western open world games but I’d be willing to try if they want down that route. If the same team that is doing 16 tries another genre I’d totally be down

@KaijuKaiser So maybe Final Fantasy 17 will be a high budget movie then.. as long as it has "Crystals, summons , dragoons, world building, iconic enemies, epic music, Cid, etc"

Regarding the quote of Yoshida in answering the question: what is Final fantasy.... It is obvious that as a game developer he is not going to reveal even what he thinks it is, as doing so would result in the fans expecting that blue print every single game. Therefore, bringing up this quote as a rebuttal to someone saying "this is not FF" does not really challenge the statement. By quoting this, it only shows that you do not have an opinion on what FF is, perhaps its because you don't have any real connection to the series? or maybe its because you haven't played much of the series? But everyone who has connected with the series knows the elements that have been retained in every numbered entry up until FF X. Thus, even if Yoshida refuses to acknowledge it publically, there very much is a blue print, filled with elements that enables the player to identify the game as one of the final fantasy series.

Final fantasy is a book, and each entry is a chapter in that book. With that said, this video i found can explain what i want to say better than i ever could, and i agree with this description 100% regarding the question: What is Final Fantasy. Therefore, i encourage those who are interested to watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLU1x9jcu8g&t=1s

@DaniPooo I thought we were talking about games.

@KaijuKaiser Just let it go mate. You"ll never get through to people who clearly speak for the whole fanbase on what is and isn't a Final Fantasy game.

@Cloud39472 I guess you're right. I'm just happy that for every disgruntled person there will be at least two or three new fans who try this game as their first FF. I'm seeing A LOT of that. Huge streamers are calling this GOTY including people like Moist and Asmongold. Game is going to be huge. FF needs this success, some people would rather have it fail which I find sad.

@KaijuKaiser I guess you didn't get my point then

"Crystals, summons , dragoons, world building, iconic enemies, epic music, Cid, etc"

None of those are game related necessarily. So could be any media, any genre, could be a book, a tv show, a movie.

Again I am not saying that Final Fantasy XVI is gonna be a bad game, from what I played so far in the demo it's great.
But it doesn't feel like a Final Fantasy game to me.
And when they show summons and chocobo's it almost as if they are trying to convince me that it is.

You play a bit and be like "This feels sort of like The Witcher 3" then the game goes "No look here you have a chocobo, IT IS FINAL FANTASY!", and I'll be like "yeah nice try.."

@DaniPooo I'll accept your concession.

@Lmaooo 100%, But you can absolutely become a new fan of the Franchise, My first Final Fantasy was FFVII back in the 90s I loved it so much that I had to get hold of all the games that came before it, after playing 1-7 I new I could call myself a fan of the franchise, and I have played every Final Fantasy game since, except some spin-off titles and Final Fantasy 11.

but that year when I played Final Fantasy 1-7 I considered myself a new fan of the franchise. Now I am an old bitter fan of the franchise hahaha

@DaniPooo But that was different, since it was a Final Fantasy game, typical of the franchise and genre, though it did change some things up, the main elements that a ff game has were retained. The over world, the battle theme and camera, the cut scenes, and the exploration of the open map the party system, the game was still heavily inspired by DnD, Final fantasy 7 defined the genre, it was something that broke the mold by setting the trend, not by copying what was already out there.

@Lmaooo What are you going on about? Asmongold is huge, he was upset with the direction of WoW and went to FFXIV and attracted thousands of players to that game creating so many new FF fans. Him enjoying XVI while streaming with thousands watching the game is going to push a lot of preorders. Nowhere did I say that streamers determine what is GOTY. That's their opinion but their opinion matters to many people whether you like it or not. Stop being obtuse, you know the point I'm making but you just want to be difficult for the sake of argument.

@KaijuKaiser that asmondgold sure seems impressive...
Too bad he didn't promote a proper main line Final Fantasy title instead.

Becoming a fan of Final Fantasy XIV-XVI doesn't make you a fan of the franchise alone. Those games are not representative enough of the franchise.

I went into this just expecting to get through the core mechanics of the gameplay. But the story has a very strong start. I love game mechanics and play mostly single-player games. With just the first 2 hours within the demo, I can see this story being one of 2023's strongest for gaming.

This will be my first entry into the Final Fantasy series where I have an interest in completing the story

@DaniPooo Everybody’s got to start somewhere , enough with the gatekeeping

@MUG3NHC it's a very old build. Surely you don't think it'll release like that

@DaniPooo What you’re doing is 100% gatekeeping lol. You just said I’m not a fan. You don’t even know me. You also say you can’t be a fan while only enjoying a few. Nonsense even a bunch of older fans only like the old games. People like you are what make these fandoms so toxic. knock it off already

A lot of people talking about how its some Game of Thrones rip off. The way this game is playing out is EXACTLY like FF12. FF12 was completely political kingdom stuff like Game of Thrones. FF12 came out in 2006. Game of Thrones came out in 2011.

Keep in mind this is the beginning of the game. They are setting up the story. There will be a good amount of cutscenes all throughout, but it is highly unlikely that it will have this much.

Just looking at it in a vacuum, I haven't seen anything quite like it. I think it's shaping up to be something that will be remembered for a very long time.

I'm now accepting bets (#1) on FF16 Remake incoming in 2048, after 25 years of absence.

#1 All payments to be settled a year later in 2049.

@DaniPooo don't be daft, its not an exclusive club, where you have to play them all to be a fan

Final fantasy died when Sakaguchi left.
the rest of you just swallow whatever corporate tells you is final fantasy.

@Cordyceps If its been so bad for so long then why are you still here? Find other Jrpgs that actually interest you instead of being bitter.

The demo was so fantastic. Like I haven't been this invested in a FF game for a while (FFVII remake is the exception lol). The story was way more brutal than I was expecting. However, on normal difficulty I found it to be very easy and I didn't use any of the accessories. But I'm not knocking that off because FF has always focused on story, if I want a challenge I'll just play a soulsbourne game (looking at you Lies of P hehe)

@Cloud39472 you know there are like 39471 other cloud clones I could talk before you.

People are writing whole manifestos in the comment section lol it just goes to show how passionate people are about what their vision of Final Fantasy is.

@Cordyceps Lol OK good talk.

@AdamNovice that's exactly what I thought too. Man, I played that Tanker demo for mgs2 to death!

@themightyant I'm thinking you didn't actually read the whole discussion before replying, did you? You're making assumptions that were already discussed and talked about (turn based, etc.)

I'm bolding this disclaimer because nobody will read it otherwise: I'm talking about the nature of that reply in a general sense, not specifically toward that game.

In your list of what makes an RPG or makes the FF brand, you identified no gameplay loop or design pillar that makes something in the genre of RPG beyond "skill trees" and "equipment". That's it? Throw in a skill tree and equipment, boom, RPG, it's done. Call of Duty is an RPG with a first person online shooter mechanic! The Show is an RPG with a batting mechanic! Virtually every game from the past 20 years suddenly is an RPG! No other genre really even exists. RPG is the Latin word for video game!

The old phrase "if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon" comes to mind with that kind of definition. Things have categories so people can communicate what the thing is.

Step out of the fandom for a moment and read your definition of what makes something an FF game. Your wooly definition may work to identify something as part of the overall FF brand family including spinoff brands, but not what defines a particular brand within the family. I.E. That could be used to identify FF Tactics as part of the overarching FF brand, but does not identify the FF Tactics brand. The "mainline" games are a sub-brand of its own, but without identity. Regardless of what the game does right or wrong, focus on your own definition of the brand, not the actual game. If you describe to someone that doesn't know anything about games what a Mario game is, what a Doom game is, what a Tomb Raider game is, what a GoW game is, it's unlikely you would fail to inform them what it is with a description of a common element that glues the franchise together, despite the changes the franchises have gone through over years, those common elements remain and anyone can understand what any game in those series is, what the brand represents, different as they may be individually, as defined by those core foundations of those franchises.

Now read your definition of what FF is again, through the eyes of someone that doesn't know their Quakeguy from their Rayman. What did you tell them about FF? How do they know what kind of game it is? How do they know what 1, 4, 7, 10, 13 and 16 have in common? And how is it even possible when the company itself can't seem to answer that question and in many cases the answer is "nothing."

Again and I feel I have to have this in bold so people actually read it I'm speaking broadly about your way of categorizing things there, and not speaking specifically about this game *as I have said numerous times I do not know for myself yet.

I feel like we need people like Todd Howard, Warren Spector, even Sakaguchi himself, and even Masahiro Sakurai as an expert in game design, though not RPGs in particular, to write some white papers on how the term "RPG" has become misunderstood and what core gameplay designs, in design level terms make an RPG vs an adventure game and an action game.

Edit: Also, the genre thing seems to be an internet dweller problem. Devs, even marketers don't seem to be re-categorizing every game as being an "RPG", that's an internet fan consumer education issue, but doesn't seem to be a problem within the industry. The FF brand issue, though, I can think of no other brand at all in the history of gaming, where the brand did not convey what type of game the game actually is. That is the principal component of a brand franchise for every single other franchise.

I was surprised how much the demo captivated me. After the XIII trilogy (which I actually didn’t thing was that horrible but definitely not up to the standards set by the franchise) and XV which I really did not like at all and only made it about 3 or 4 chapters in. I was prepared to just ignore this game, but that demo has me convinced I need to pick this up

@themightyant Ahh, I was unaware of the removal of a chunk of conversation. Yes, it was part of an attempt at an exchange with someone else's removed comments, but I'd clarified specifically as part of that exchange I wasn't talking about turn based vs arpg and various other things, and those clarifications got cut with the comments, so it's somewhat more understandable why you started the way you did. The rest of the cut comments only had value in response to someone else's also removed comments, but the clarifications that got cut with them about what I specifically was and wasn't referring to were useful to the whole conversation with everyone. Makes a lot more sense now.

My takeaway from seeing more of the demo is that I still don't know enough about it. It feels mostly like a tutorial slice of gameplay, but I'm unwilling to say that it definitely can't feel like an RPG or an FF. It doesn't yet. But it also feels like it hasn't opened up to really answer the question yet either.

@themightyant Yeah, demos are tricky and Squares demos tend to miss the mark much of the time. From big games like this to little games like Lost Sphear, the only demo that I think gave a real feel for the whole game is DQ11 because it was basically just 1/6 of the whole game for free. And my experience with the demo wasn't trying to find out anything about story, I'm not interested in that aspect, I was more interested in seeing what the "feel" of gameplay, the total loop is, that's my real concern, and I don't think the demo really answers my question in the affirmative or negative. It cuts off too soon. (Granted, IMO the game takes too long to get to the gameplay loop in general, but it's a lesser issue and often in this type of thing you need to make it to chapter 2 or so to really get a feel for the loop. It may unfold the way I'd hope, or it may not unfold and just kind of stay one-note. Still TBD it seems.

@tallythwack No you don't need to, but playing the black sheep of the franchise and calling yourself a fan of the entire franchise is maybe not the smartest

@gonzilla it’s because it was the prologue of the game. Once it opens up and you start going places it will improve. Most RPGs are dialogue heavy at the start.

@NEStalgia from all of your comments in all of the articles, unless you’re a troll this game just isn’t for you and you should buy something like Spider-Man instead and just stop concerning yourself with this, it’s making you really mad lol

@Justin113 Haha no, no, the clarifications above got lost but my criticism isn't towards what the game IS so much as the branding decision to (possibly) take a game that doesn't belong as a numbered entry if the particular series and name it so. Other than the overly long cutscenes (and the engine performance lol) I haven't actually criticized the game itself. (Yet anyway,I havent really formed a strong opinion on it yet!)

Either way I at least have way more interest in this whether it's good as an ff game or just interesting as it's own thing, , despite being frustrated by the branding, even if it ends up low on the backlog list, than I do in spiderman lol! I don't think I've ever been less hyped for a non horror or sports game than spiderman2 in my life 😂. This I'm sure I'm buy at some point. Spiderman I probably won't. I pre-ordered the original because I'm an insomniac fan even though I'm not a marvel fan, but it was disappointing to me for an insomniac game so I'm out for the sequel. I did play miles though just because it was the only PS5 launch day title though 😂

@KaijuKaiser You're missing the point..
It's not about "gate-keeping". It feel like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

You think you can say that you're a fan of Indian cuisine after only trying a Butter Chicken?
You can say that you're a fan of butter chicken.
But that alone is a poor representation of Indian cuisine as a whole.

I think of it the same way with a video game franchise, just playing one game, and especially a game that many agree on is like a black sheep of the franchise is not going to give you a very good understanding of what the franchise is all about.
And then I don't think you can really call yourself a fan of the franchise.

If you only played Final Fantasy XIV then you can be a Final Fantasy XIV fan, you would probably also enjoy Final Fantasy XI. But you're not really a Final Fantasy franchise fan.

Just as playing World of Warcraft doesn't make you a Warcraft fan without even trying the actual Warcraft games

If there is one Final Fantasy game that best represents what Final Fantasy is about then it would be Final Fantasy IX.
It was made as a celebration of the entire franchise as a whole and succeeds in that. It's also one of the most beloved by the fans.
So I would recommend anyone who want to know what Final Fantasy is.

@themightyant "A sweeping story with a wide range of engaging characters in a fantasy setting? A story based around crystals and eikons/eidolons/espers etc that is really just a thinly veiled commentary on the state of aspects in our world? Equipment and skill trees? Big swords, big hair and epic music? The FF prelude theme or victory music? Elemental based magic? Chocobos, Moogles and Cid? A wide world to explore? Giant budget for the genre? A game that pushes boundaries and tries to push the genre forward? I could go on…"

I disagree.
That is what Final Fantasy seemingly has become in the later years, but that is not what the franchise was known for in the golden era of the franchise. Some of it yes, but not all.
Final Fantasy VII introduced big hair and big swords.

All games up until 13 (Excluding 11) has been turn based jpgs, That's most of the franchise.

Most game studios don't change the genre of the mainline games in a franchise. World of Warcraft is not called Warcraft 4 and the Mario&Luigi games are not classed as mainline Mario games.

SquareEnix has messed this up, most people knows it.
Had they not made this game into a numbered entry (Same really with XI, XIV and XV), then no-one would have complained.
Because they are all great games.
But they do not belong in the numbered mainline.

Final Fantasy XIII belongs in the mainline though (Because it's still a turn based jRPG), even if it is one of the worst.

Most companies have the decency and brains not to change the genre of a franchise.
And if they do, then it'll be like a spin-off or like a spin-off series.
And this used to be the case with SquareSoft as well, just thinking about the Mana, Saga, Final Fantasy Tactics and Kingdom Hearts series.
They all started as Final Fantasy off-shoots/spin-off titles that eventually got their own identities.

But after the Square+Enix merge, then they lost their sense and have ever since made a countless of strange decisions.

@awaltzforvenus yeah, how many Final Fantasy games have they released in those 20 years that are not turn based? two I guess with a 3rd one being released next week.

How many games have been turn-based jpgs? 15 I think...

So they released 15 turn based jpgs (Excluding XI and XIV since they are online), Building a solid fanbase.

Then they just went and completely changed the genre.
Is it strange that fans take offence? I don't think so.

The move to action "rpg" is clearly a move to appeal more to the mainstream. That a good thing if you don't care about your fans and just want to make more money.
Sure it's the sole purpose of a company to make money.

However I don't think they should treat that franchise with such disrespect, Final Fantasy 1 literally saved Square from bankruptcy.

Anyone who defend such a move (that disrespect the games roots, DNA, and the fanbase) is clearly guided selfish gain.

Similar to defending child labour because it means that you might be able to buy something for a lower price.

Only in this case, YOU enjoy action games more so from your perspective it's good because you have more games that appeal to you.
And you don't care if an entire fanbase was betrayed, as long as you get your action game.

As if you didn't have plenty of action games already?
Great jRPG that doesn't feel like a cringe worthy anime (Like the Tales games for example) are few and far between.

@DaniPooo whos the black sheep ? I've played them all ,I dont play 14 because I'm not an mp kind of guy ,ive enjoyed all of them,on various formats over the years ,not judging ,just interested in which you see as the black sheep.

@themightyant Final fantasy XII just gave the illusion of real-time because you were able to move your characters during the battle. but you still had to wait for your turn before you had attack and use spells and stuff.

And like you said it had the gambit system that worked in a similar manner to how "auto-battle" works in DragonQuest. Only with Final Fantasy XII being even more tactical and customisable.
But it was still turn based as your party members had their cooldown before they could do anything.

It's very different from Final Fantasy XV which barely have any cooldowns and most of the time you just attack, dodge and parry attacks.

"It’s spent as long not being turn based as turn based. "
I don't think the time matters much..
How many mainline Final Fantasy games have been released that are action based in that time?

Well that would be Final Fantasy XV and Final Fantasy VII Remake (If you even should count that one as a mainline entry), Final Fantasy XVI being released next week.
So that makes what? 3 games... so far.. Against like 15 turn-based titles. Oh and yeah I do not count Final Fantasy XI and XIV as these should never have been main line anyway, even if they could be regarded as turn based to some extent and would even strengthen my point.

"Pre-FF7 characters features were exaggerated due to turning these into small pixel sprites and it was common for the heads, hair and weapons (when shown) to be disproportionately larger than they should be. e.g. FF1-6 often the head and hair is about two-thirds the size of the rest of the body and when swords appeared on screen for them to be as tall as the character."

yeah it's called chibi. It was done that way mostly for practical reasons, how many 8-16-bit rpg games have you played when character sprites have realistic proportions?
You can see in the FMV sequences and the Amano artwork what the characters were actually supposed to look like.

"It hasn’t changed genre. It’s still an RPG."
It's now what is referred to as an ARPG, yes it's a thing, there's even a wikipedia page if you look up Action RPG.
Final Fantasy did not use to be an action RPG franchise.

It's very similar to is Metallica would stop making thrash metal and all their new album would be power metal albums. Their iconic sound would be lost and fans would be upset about that for sure, and rightly so.

Now please realise that for every argument you throw at me I will have a counter argument because I have ADHD and Final Fantasy has been my entire life, I know my stuff about this franchise.

@tallythwack You're smart, I'm sure you can figure it out yourself

@awaltzforvenus XI, XII, Lightning Returns and XIV was not purely action based, none of them were.
Maybe it was classified as such by some, but you still have cooldowns ATB meters and such making sure that you have to wait your turn.

There's not the attack button and roll/dodge button which seems to be the new direction.

@DaniPooo I maybe smart,mind reader iam not,dont wanna tell me,that's ok,I was just curious.

@DaniPooo hmm similar to child labour ,well no,not really is it ,its a video game mate, I love turn based games ,of which they're are plenty ,you can't blame square for wanting to appeal to a bigger demographic ,more money gives us ff17 and all the turn based games they've published over the last few years,without popular games like ff16 ,we may stop getting games like octopath ,live a live and iam setsuna

@themightyant I think we have a different opinion on that a turn based system is. For me it's "turn based" if you have to wait for your turn, before you can make a move. It can be done in many different ways. And Square has experimented with many different turn based system for Final Fantasy.

ATB is one way. Cooldowns are a different way. Static turn based like chess or Final Fantasy X is not the only way to make a turn based game. Final Fantasy tactics was also turn-based.

Now if you push a button for an immediate attack that's not turn based.

I argue that Final Fantasy 11 and 14 do not belong in the mainline franchise because they are MMO's. Much like how Blizzard didn't name WoW "Warcraft 4". At least they had the brain to figure out that hey this is a different type of game based of the Warcraft franchise.

But it's typical of SquareEnix to make these weird decisions that don't make sense, they could have called them Final Fantasy Online or World of Final Fantasy or something else.

"But it would all still be Metal" - Correct, but it would be a different subgenre, And anyone who listens to metal know that there's subgenres that are vastly different from one another and there might be some subgenres that you don't even like.

This can be directly translated into video game subgenres as well. Like imagine if a new Ridge Racer game was announced, The fans would go crazy over it, and then it turns out that they turned the arcade racer into a racing simulator. Of course the fans would be disappointed.

Imagine you go and order a pizza and they give you a flippin hamburger and the when you complain the chef says "Well it's all just bread and meat anyway!" hahah

@tallythwack they don't need to make Final Fantasy mainstream to make tons of money. And they don't need to pour so much money into developing a single game to make it good.

@DaniPooo but it seems they do,you honestly believe if ff16 was turned based ,with lower production values, it would sell as many as it will, in its current state ,that just delusional

@tallythwack Not as many perhaps, but plenty enough.
Most Final Fantasy games have sold well. And games such as Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default sold decently right.
I never said it needs to go LOW budget. It doesn't always have to be one extreme or another, There's an "in-between" as well..

But the way they have been focusing on like the best graphics in the last 20 years har been a huge time-sink, and time is money.

The graphics needs to be good sure, but does it have to be THAT good?

Final Fantasy graphics has always been nice, But it has mostly come down to artistic reasons rather than technical.
And back in the day they were able to release a new game every other year. I understand that dev time is longer today and that's ok.

But just look at Final Fantasy XV what an expensive mess that was.

There's been rumours of a FFIX remake, You don't think it would sell well if it retained it's original combat system?

Just look at DragonQuest XI and Pokemon Scarlet And Violet they sold well.
People even called DragonQuest XI the best DQ game ever and the graphics was not bad. But also not really industry leading.

Final Fantasy VII for example was not so beloved due to it's technically advanced graphics.
But it did a good job painting a picture and setting a mood with its pre-rendered backgrounds paired with Uematsu's iconic music.

@DaniPooo now your just contradicting yourself,ff graphics haven't just always been nice,they have always far surpassed just nice ,you yourself stated that 7 had technically advanced graphics,ff6 received acclaim across the board,for its graphics back in the 90s on the snes,people can be fans of any media ,even if they only like one particular game,song or movie ,your attitude kind of reminds me of Metallica fans trying to shut down people who where fans of the group,after hearing master of puppets on stranger things,who themselves where then shut down by James hetfield,I could say to you ,you're not a true fan because you wasn't around in the early days when those ff games where actually released, and your just jumping on the bandwagon with the re-releases ,but I wouldn't ,because that's just silly.

@tallythwack No I don't contradict myself. I never said that Final Fantasy didn't have good graphics.

You misunderstood what I said about Final Fantasy VII. It's not very technically impressive. But it still looked good thanks to the art direction. Just look up that other games released in 1997 for the playstation. Crash Bandicoot 2 for example or Gran Turismo. Full on 3D games that pushed what the playstation was capable of at the time. And it sort of always been like this. Just l compare Final Fantasy XIII with The Last of Us on the PS3 for example.
Yes Final Fantasy XIII looks very nice, but it's not that impressive compared to some other games on the system.

Final Fantasy VII looked good thanks to nice looking pre-rendered backgrounds and good art direction.

Final Fantasy VI had great graphics for being on the SNES, but that was also more of an artistic thing rather than technical.
However I am not saying that it's not one of the better looking games on the system.
But then again, you have games like Starfox and Donkey Kong Country for example.

They always made games that looked nice, but mostly from an artistic perspective rather than a technical one.

About the Metallica reference, again you fail to understand my point of view. I don't say that you need to have heard all their albums to call yourself a Metallica fan. Heck you can even dislike some albums but still call yourself a fan. (I'm not a big fan of Final Fantasy II) But if you don't like the genre of music that they are most known for or only listen to the song Nothing Else Matters then I don't think you should call yourself a fan. To be a fan I would say that you should understand what sort of music they play and enjoy listening to it, you don't need to love every album, but you should probably enjoy listening to Thrash metal.

You're right, I am not a true fan of the franchise anymore. Despite playing and beating all games to date (Except XI and XV, played both but never stuck with them to the end, I also never bothered with all the mobile games). I played all the Final Fantasy games in their original forms and also their remakes and remasters. Many of these games I have beaten so many times that I lost count.

Unfortunately the franchise lost its magic with Final Fantasy XII and have never quite recovered it.
And now they have also changed the genre. I am not saying that XV was a bad game or that XVI is not going to be a great game.
But to me it has lost the Final Fantasy magic, and the change to action RPG only makes it less Final Fantasy.

I am a fan of what Final Fantasy used to be and what Square used to be before they became this big corporate money sucking machine.

It's ok, but the framerate issues on performance mode are very noticeable. Still better than playing at 30FPS locked. Especially a game with reaction times to dodge being somewhat necessary, you need a more fluid gameplay.

@DaniPooo and thats fine, millions of people love them ,and if 16 brings in more thats surely a good thing

finally had time to do the demo and im sold. it was much better than anticipated. and also less cheezy.
gonna get that game for sure when ill have proper time