Devil May Cry Designer Crafts Magnum Opus with Final Fantasy 16

June 11th? It's already been out a week?

@ILikeStake I guess he mistakened the release date for the demo lol

I've tried the demo and it's obviously an humongous fantastic RPG. But damn the characters look boring!

I never felt even a little empathy or connection to these plastic faced characters, talking like they were out of a low budget fantasy movie. Add to that a very bland character design and I'm afraid I won't be invested in them enough to see the game to the end...

We'll see, I hope I'm wrong...

I canceled my pre order as I wasn't sure about the 30fps, played the demo again and it clicked fine. Went to pre order again it said not until Jul 16th lol. Something tells me this has been selling well and might be tricky to get a copy day 1 if you wait.

Haven't played DMC5 but I very much look forward to it once I get through 3 and 4. I think XVI plays very differently from Dragons Dogma and MHW but all 3 have fantastic combat that I don't have a preference for any. I love all 3 of them. I am glad he gave it his all and it's paid off. It's brilliant

Ngl I get a good chuckle out of the few comments claiming it was button mashy cause it shows they absolutely refused to engage in the mechanics that were there from the start. And that's not even counting how much it opens up in the eikonic challenge

@Judal27 I've been highly cynical from the start about the action combat, and my time with the demo essentially confirmed what I was expecting. It's not bad. It's not great either. Even with a few more mechanics on hand, I find you do end up stringing together the same sequence of actions over and over again. This is where the button mashing comments come from and they're not entirely wrong. The Tales series suffers from the same problem, even if the nature of its combat is slightly different.

On thing I've thought since the demo is that if the FF16 team really want you to get deep into the combo system then I hope the game has a training mode, as in any fighter or in games like Bayonetta. Hard to work out the timings otherwise. I'd be somewhat surprised if it does.

And in the end, I think this is just another example of why the combat feels out of place. It would be almost completely incongruous for a FF to have a combo training mode. People aren't coming to big RPGs like this for their flashy combo systems.

I was really hoping they were going to go with the same system as FF7R. That mixed up action and turn based combat in a really clever way. So in some respects, I'm probably just disappointed we didn't get that (or indeed a full return to a turn based system).

Regardless, I will pre-order the game, I will complete it and I will probably enjoy it. I just expect that by the time I get there, I will think of the combat as something I had to endure, much like with the (otherwise excellent) Tales of Arise.

@mcdreamer I am sorry but I would still attribute you stringing the same sequence as refusing to engage with the combat. Your square is going to be your main source of dmg in the prologue yes but it is far from your only option. I can list the pretty decent amount of moves you can already do in the prologue and how to utilize them together but again, it all comes down to the player's willingness to experiment with the combat. And it's understandable that not everyone is going to be good at action games and not everyone is going to play to master it. Hell I don't even consider myself all that good at these combo heavy action games. But it doesn't change the fact, the prologue alone gives you plenty of options to keep you from just mashing square

As for whether this is what certain FF fans want out of it, that's a topic for another day. All I'll say is that XVI is an action rpg and I would want it to have the best possible combat system for action based combat and I really believe they delivered here as much as I loved the hybrid combat from 7R. I'm pretty sure it is gonna have some sort of training mode but I can't remember if they said it will

@Judal27 Yes, I hope there really are more options and there are multiple combo options as the game goes on. I still contend most people will have a favoured set they perform repeatedly, which to some will feel like engagement enough. The challenge mode looked more promising but given it started with a story spoiler I didn’t want to play too much. I’ll be interested to see how I really feel once the game is finished.

The other thing is that From are the pinnacle when it comes to action RPGs for me, so any game in the genre that doesn’t have that specific feel is going to feel disappointing to me.

Is the combat like DMC where you have several weapons and several guns and you switch between them all regularly to extend combos etc? Like DMC has all the swords, nun chucks, and even a motorbike to swap between....

I skipped the demo and I am waiting for the full game to come out. But was just wondering exactly how close the combat is to DMC. In my head I imagine it more as "DMC lite/my first DMC" if that makes sense. Can anyone confirm

@Sakai there seems to be a lot of juggling in a dmc game,there doesn't in ff16 ,hope this helps, but i doubt it 😂

@tallythwack if your character is on the floor in DMC, you are doing it wrong.
That's a bit of a shame, the depth of DMC combat is what makes it great and engaging.

Maybe FF16 will offer depth in other ways. I look forward to finding out. Thanks for the heads up!

Suzuki goes on to say that he hopes "those who have never played an action game before can go and try out Final Fantasy 16. I hope this game will give you a chance to experience the allure that an action game can bring.”

I mean they had a marketing push saying they were going to bring old school fans back into the fold. That failed! Most of us think this doesn't even look like FF/an actual RPG.

Confirmed. it's not an rpg it's an action game.

The combat looks absolutely sublime. The last thing you'd expect from Final Fantasy. The depth is there if you want to master it, from what I have played, which is just the tip of the iceberg.

@mcdreamer I keep seeing you criticise what may turn out to be the best combat in any JRPG. You just repeating the same 1 button combo when there is so much depth in types of attack, magic and not to mention aerial combat and movement is on you. I think the combat seems so good that I won't ever be able to go back to the serviceable combat in older FF titles.

EDIT: I mean the more I think about it the graver the injustice of your comment 'just end up doing the same 3 button combo' for lord's sake man watch this video: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pStFbNH22S4'. It's almost like you saying 'SF6 combat is not great I just get through arcade mode using punch, punch, kick.

Do you realise who the battle director in this game is? DMC has some of the greatest combat mechanics of any game out there full stop. Suzuki is a master and shouldn't have to suffer ignorant criticisms like that.

@Immortal_Barnet sorry friend, but the "best combat in any RPG" already exists.

It's called Bloodborne.

@mcdreamer
Training mode You described is literally in the game! It was shown in State of Play.

@Sakai there's plenty of variety in the eikon challenge part of the demo,plenty of in air juggling shenanigans,if you so wish,it seems to me you can get through the battles spamming certain moves ,however the moves offered do give you plenty of opportunity to kill with more style,im not sure whether rewards are given for such a playstyle like dmc does,but it should.

@Cordyceps Bloodborne is not a JRPG, it is a Soulslike.

@Cordyceps it a action rpg

@Immortal_Barnet semantic nonsense

Also, You're moving the goalposts, you said "any rpg" and now you're comparing different types.

@C25CLOUD No, it's an action game with rpg elements.

@Immortal_Barnet Thanks for the URL. I am one one the many that are disinterested in this games combat. After reading your comment I was concerned that maybe I was doing it wrong (in the demo). But my demo experience was very similar to this video. I tried out different unlocked abilities, rotated through Eikon cooldown constantly, followed up melee with ranged for bonuses and juggling, and had a dog constantly on the move. I considered cancelling my preorder after playing this demo but in the end I am interested enough in the story and characters to ignore the combat and solder on, thanks for the assistance.

So, this sounds somewhat disappointing, if I am understanding the above comments correctly. Let me first state that I have never played a Final Fantasy game. I know, I know, but I've just never got round to playing one. Second thing to say is that I'm not getting any younger (I get that none of us are) as I'll be 60 later this year, and so my memory is not overly great.

However, there is then the real elephant in the chat, I've never, ever, been any good at combos. I've bought a few games, and then found myself in a real struggle to complete them (or not, as is more likely the case). I've played and as I recall, may have finished Bayonetta, but that was when the original first released. I bought Justice League, and was then completely incapable of playing it because of the combos.

So, now I find that I'm in the position that the first Final Fantasy game that has captured my attention (outside FF7, of which I am awaiting the completed game) maybe something that I am unable to play. Can anyone please enlighten me as to whether the combat in FF16 is so reliant on combos that I will be incapable of playing it? Kind of gutted that I may miss out, but I'd rather not spend money on something that is, for me, unplayable...

@Fiendish-Beaver There are features in the game, like items you can equip, that will auto complete combos for you, etc.

Accessibility features are present, should have no worries

Wow! Such accurate! So good! June 11th!

That's cool, and good to know, @Cordyceps. Thank you...

I am so impressed by the combat system. There are so much depth and possibilities with the different Eikons. Watch the video from yesterday with Maximilian Dood and Suzuki.

So bizarre that no One Is highlighting The elephant in the room Here with this game's Combat: Despite what depthyou may think Does or Does not exist in the game, it is essentially just as fickle as a cosmetic hat if the enemies you fight don't require much effort due to terrible Implementation/AI. Depth of combat must also include consideration of the actual encounters that may or may not implore a certain level of engagement with the systems.

If you can button mash to the same result that you can doing more targeted and elaborate combos, as the enemies line up to engage one by one, basically just standing there in between very infrequent basic attacks and the bloated health bars decreases at the same rate despite which varience of abilities you use, it certainly loses the feeling of "depth," and instead becomes a flashy show in which cool down bars and health bars(time) are the only real enemy.

My thumbs are ready!

I tried the demo and loved it. I'm not a big FF guy (I have only played the ps1 version of 7) but because I am a DMC guy I had to try this out and man....this is gonna be something special. I could tell.

I literally finished the demo and hopped online to pre order a physical copy lmao. Just goes to show, demos are a good thing. I probably wouldn't have touched this until a massive sale years after the fact but because I got to test it risk free, they're getting my $70.

Take not game devs/studios. This is the way.

@KundaliniRising333 Not on this thread, but I have gone off about how it looks like It's just damage sponges with the horrible stagger system.

I've never been a fan of the DMC "style over substance" combat. FF has been kinda SoS since Nomura though, so that fits actually.

The commenters of this site seem to be pretty down on this game for some reason. I see nothing but glowing praise everywhere else.

@Olmaz needs more belts.

Hmmm. Funny he says this cuz after playing the demo I definitely feel like ff16 is toned down compared to dmc5. Now of course I'll have to wait till I have the full game and have the full moveset unlocked, but as far as the demo goes clibe doesn't seem too mechanically deep.

Like there are no pause combos, no back to forward moves, no rotation moves, etc. Even the limit break just turns your moveset into a masher instead of enhancing or altering your attacks like devil trigger does. Not saying 16 isn't deep cuz it is but dmc5 feels much more like his best work

@Cordyceps same. I really tested it over and over again in all the non boss demo fights. The enemies literally wait until you kill them one by one. The ranged enemies will still occasionally fire a projectile off, but with Melee it's basically where they get closer to you and just stand there, waiting for the one actually aggroed enemy to swing a few times before dying.

It's definitely style over substance, it's a great way to put it. I actually grew tired of dmc 5 after just an hour in because of how boring, repetive, and one not that combat was as well. I chalk it up actually to people that enjoy watching anime and that style of combat that you sometimes see in that medium and these types of combat systems just trying to translated into a game. where you're just pulling off fancy looking attacks just because you can with certain combinations and combos but it actually doesn't really enhance your power or improve your ability to overcome enemies in favor of simply making how you take the enemies out look more bombastic.

Which honestly I get it. If that's appealing to you then for sure have at it, and it obviously does for many because games like Bayonetta and dmc are huge.

Yet in an RPG or even an arpg you want to feel like you're getting more powerful and that your gear and your abilities acquired over time are actually helping you overcome more difficult enemies. Yet when the enemies are so dumb even Midway through the game and just stand there and as you progress they merely have larger health bars along with different designs and animations coupled with the same brain dead AI, it's just stupid imo. I think what really compounds that is that the abilities theselves for all the Flash and pompous pageantry that muddies the screen, when you're doing them, they hit like a weak basic attack in most other games. no matter what the enemy, they're just weak for how dope they look. it feels like you're going to end up getting a lot of the abilities pretty early on and they're going to grow stale no matter the visual flair. Therefore, wanting to engage In the variety of skills is going to grow stale because the Flash doesn't have a payoff in power. Thus it will be just doing the few skills over and over again that are the least weak.

If the level design and exploration helped break up that potential mediocrity a bit it would help massively. Yet it seems like level design may actually be the weakest aspect of the game, even more so than the combat AI, balancing and difficulty. Which was also a drawback in dmc 5 as well.

So basically much of the game is quite overtly relying on cutscenes and story beats. Thus another potential walking simulator playable movie type design. I hope perhaps the higher difficulty mode makes it better and honestly should be included from the onset. Yet I suspect it may amount to just putting enemies with even further bloated health bars in places, and having them hit harder when they do choose to attack which I suppose is better than the base game difficulty.

@KundaliniRising333 To be fair, that's pretty standard in gaming. You can cheese bosses in Bloodborne and Elden Ring. You can get really good and complete them at level 1 or you can overlevel and/or summon help and/or cheese encounters. In any FF, you can get by just using basic attacks and healing when needed - you very rarely have to even do something as "deep" as exploit elemental weaknesses. Being good at a game is always something you do because you want to, not because you have to. Why get so good you can complete Halo on Legendary when you could just be crap and play on Easy? Because you want to. It's the same with XVI.

And to be fair to XVI, the game rewards you based on how well you play. Pretty sure you get more exp and gil, and you get better drops. Major bosses even give you a unique reward if you don't get hit at all.

@Matroska I was wondering that because in some of the previews they mentioned greater chance of loot from battle performance as well. Or did I misunderstand that? Because if that's true, or better experience and Gil, then yah that adds extra incentive to fully engage and use a diverse tools et to dance through the battles.

Is that confirmed? As I didn't notice differences in rewards in the demo so much. Hopefully we can get a greater clarity to what exactly improves your silent rating and if and which modes that system works.

@KundaliniRising333 Yeah the game pops up a tutorial that says that bit it isn't specific - but it has to be gil, exp and/or better drops. And I saw someone get a unique item named after the boss after defeating Benedikta without taking any hits.

@Matroska Whoa really? That's awesome. She is freaking hard, I don't have the time to try to beat her without getting hit lol